Erik Swars

Hey Erik, thank you for agreeing to have this conversation with me. I’m really excited to learn more about the space we’re sitting in—47m—and also about you. So let’s start with what brought you to Leipzig originally, and what’s made you stay?

I was born next to Leipzig, so I was kind of used to it. After university and some time in Berlin and Hanover, I stayed here because of the studios I could use for my work, and the people I knew here—friends and colleagues. And the subculture, which was kind of connected to Berlin.

But the main reason was, because of lucky situations and people I was in contact with, I had the chance to work in good studios. Actually, before COVID, I was thinking of moving to Berlin or to another city, maybe Brussels or Vienna. But then COVID came. We started working in Pittlerwerke, which was amazing at the time. And then we started this project here (47m), and I just—kept missing the point of moving to another city because of my work. There was no time to think about it. I think that’s it. The studio and missing the right moment.

How would you define your artistic practice? Your work moves between mediums…

I mean, it has changed since 2017—that was a big step. Before that, I wasn’t sure how to use photography in my work. But actually, I would say I’m more of a photographer than a painter.

I studied painting, and mainly I was doing painting, but always connected to photography. Then, while preparing my first solo exhibition at Galerie Kleindienst, I realized I was done with painting—for the moment. So I shot my last painting with brushes on canvas. And for this exhibition, I did my first installation, a video work, and I opened my photographic archive for the first time.

So my artistic work changed. Paintings became more material-based, and last year I came back to painting again. Actually, it’s more like action and reaction—responding to the space I have. I’m always creating new works for a new room, a new space.

I try to change the memory of a space. People who are familiar with a space know how it works—where the doors are, the windows. I try to reconnect that, so it doesn’t get boring. In a way, the viewer is more active, searching for the door—“how do I escape?”

So you’re trying to reimagine the space with your work and take the viewer’s perspective into account.

Yeah, and then it’s more like playing with painting, playing with photography, playing with video work or objects. It’s like ping-pong inside the exhibition.

For me, the most interesting part is always in the middle of the exhibition. It’s not about one particular work, but about the connection between them.

I also like to make it very clear what medium I’m working with. I’m not interested in 4K video, for example. I don’t want to forget that I’m watching a recording. It shouldn’t be sharper than reality. I like old media, like low-quality video recordings. I want to see the pixels. I want to recognize—“ah, it’s photography,” “ah, it’s video work,” “ah, it’s a painting.” Very simple.

Nice, I can appreciate that. It’s obvious that physical spaces are very important to you, as you just described in your artistic practice. Do you see the connections between your personal art and the spaces that you create and co-run, like this space (47m)?

I worked in this space for one and a half years before we opened it as 47m. I know it quite well, and I know that it’s complicated.

So far, we’ve only had two exhibitions here. I like being part of the process, but it depends on the artist. Like with Shalva, it was a match from the first second we met in Vienna. We shared a vision of what the place could be. I just knew—“okay, let’s talk about that.”

Every exhibition so far has completely transformed the space. It went from dark to darker, and now it’s getting brighter.

What was the original vision for 47m? And how has it evolved since founding?

The idea was to create a new space in Leipzig and to show international positions, because I was missing that in the curatorial programs of the museums and also in the off-spaces. I wanted to bring works to Leipzig that wouldn’t normally be shown here.

Leipzig is a great place to work and live. There’s a strong subculture for the size of the city. But there’s a lack of input from the outside.

That’s what draws people to Berlin—the fact that people from outside come to the city. They do readings, workshops, exhibitions, theater—whatever—and you can see it.

And the team at 47m is working really well right now. We’re still figuring out the financial part, but we’re on a good path. We’re getting more professional, and the response has been great. It was nice to have people like the directors from Captain Petzel Gallery in Berlin visit and give positive feedback. People with a lot of experience in the art world.

So the vision you started with is still holding?

It’s still working, and it’s expanding. Like this summer, we’ll be working with Ulla Heinrich and Dreaming Beyond AI. We’re also planning to work with external curators to do the mid exhibition.

I mean, we can stay here for 10 years. That’s a long period.

That’s a big opportunity.

It is, but it also means responsibility. We just started—crazy to think that in June, it will have been one year already. It already feels like a small institution. That’s good. Especially with the good team we have. Working together day by day.

Leipzig already has a history of artist-run spaces. How do you see 47m fitting into this history, or trying to challenge that tradition?

I wouldn’t say we’re challenging it. In the beginning, maybe we thought about challenging it, but now it’s more about coming together with the other spaces—to get more influence and to create a new dynamic in the city.

After those amazing years in Leipzig, starting in the early 2000s, when there was a lot of money for the arts, it was good for the city, good for the scene, and good for students and artists because there were jobs and funding. But that wave is over now. There are still many spaces doing great work, though.

We’re lucky to have these rooms here, which are like a jewel in a way. That’s why we were able to do the exhibition with Yael Bartana. We asked her a year ago, just with two shitty photos of the rooms and one email from us. But the Upper Room here is too good to say no. So she said yes, and we made an exhibition happen.

And now you’re working on bringing spaces together, forming a union of off-spaces in Leipzig. What’s the motivation behind that?

To create a new dynamic in the city, like I said before.

We have an art university here, and people come to Leipzig because they’re interested in art. But there’s no infrastructure to get in touch with it. There’s just Instagram. And if you’re not already in the bubble, you don’t get the information about new spaces, events, or exhibitions. And that’s a problem.

I think it would be good to have a physical map. Something you can put on your fridge, or a proper website. A central place where you can check what’s happening in Leipzig’s independent art scene. And a space for the off-spaces to communicate their ideas beyond Instagram.

That’s why I reached out to around 20 spaces in Leipzig to see if they’d be interested in this idea—not necessarily to form a union, but at least to create this map. Because that’s an easy first step, and it’s not so complicated to do. Dr. Weppelmann from MdbK is into it and supports the idea. It’s also great to have the big institutions like GfzK, G2, D21, and all the other spaces involved.

When we met here at 47m for the first time, it was amazing to have 40 people from all these spaces together in one room—because it never happens. Usually, people just go to their own exhibitions. They don’t travel from Leipzig East to Leipzig West because it’s so far… But if you’re connected, you talk to each other. And when you talk to each other, you know more about what’s going on. And that makes everything more interesting.

Yeah, also sharing common challenges and coming up with creative ideas together. Other cities have this kind of infrastructure for the independent art scene. I completely agree that it’s very necessary, and that it’s missing in Leipzig—not just for people living here, but also for those coming from outside. If someone wants to understand the scene, they have almost no way to find these spaces except through Instagram.

Which is also why I’m so committed to getting eos archive off of Instagram and creating an independent platform. I started this living archive because it’s so hard to access information—even on Instagram—if you don’t already know the spaces, artists, or organizers creating these happenings.

Yeah, that’s exactly the point. You’re not just googling “47m.” You don’t even know what to look for. That’s why it’s good what you are planning.

I hope that we collaborate further in the future, with what I’m building and what your ideas are for the off-space map. Let’s see.

But you also have experience with different cultural scenes abroad. How would you compare Leipzig in terms of challenges or creative freedom? People talk a lot about the creative freedom here—especially in the past, Leipzig had a lot of space, and, like you mentioned earlier, money as well.

Well, we are one hour from Berlin. And the connection is quite good, so that’s a problem. It’s good, but it’s also a problem.

Finding a place—a studio, an empty space—it’s getting more expensive. It’s still cheap compared to other cities, but that’s not really the point. The point is, in general, it’s just too expensive.

I feel a bit worried about how it’s going to be when all the funding disappears, or when it becomes less and less. I was just talking to Constanze Müller from D21 because she’s well connected to the Kulturamt, and on March 12, there’s an important decision about cultural funding in the city.

So we have to do something about it. Or we have to find new ways. We’ve been in a very luxurious situation with funding in recent years, and it feels normal—but it’s not normal. We have to recognize that it’s a privilege.

Yeah, it’s not automatic. It has to be fought for and organized, or it disappears.

If there’s no political will to support it, because of how things are right now, then we have to find new ways to sustain it together.

I really hope people can see why it’s important to support the spaces and projects that they admire. Right now, a lot of things are offered for free or with very low entry fees, and that’s good—we want to keep that going. But there are also people with resources to contribute, and I like what 47m is doing with the membership model to keep the space partially independent from city funding.

I think people need to start investing in the culture they care about, instead of waiting for money to come from the top.

Exactly. We can’t just say, “Okay, we can’t do it.” We have to find new ways. And yeah, ideally, we could open the space without an entry fee, but it’s not possible. The funding we get isn’t enough to run exhibitions and pay the team. And we try to pay people properly, because that’s unusual in this field. It’s still normal in the cultural scene to get paid 13 euros an hour.

I think people should consider the value of these spaces, what they bring to their lives. Because otherwise, they won’t survive. And it’s only going to get harder in the future.

For a regular 47m membership it is 50 euros per year. That’s like, the price of a coffee and croissant per month. And for that, you can come here three times a week. You can access all the workshops, all the exhibitions, all the openings.

So yeah, it’s important to support your local cultural scene. It would also be interesting to have a shared fund for off-spaces in Leipzig.

Maybe that’s a future vision—if this union of spaces takes a more formal shape, a shared fund could be a natural next step. And if you show independent support outside of city funding, it actually makes it easier to get more money from the city. Because you’re proving that the interest and engagement are already there.

Yeah, so today in the afternoon, I have a meeting with Jürgen Kleindienst from the newspaper, because I talked with Constanze Müller about this situation with the city’s decision in two weeks.

I was thinking about maybe doing an interview, but not just with me—with all the off-spaces—and having one big photo of the people who run them, with the names of their spaces. So it’s not just another article about one cultural space worried that there isn’t enough funding. Because people are used to seeing that. Instead, it’s about showing that this affects 100 people directly and the city in the end.

I look forward to seeing that! Okay, last few things… you have nine and a half years left here. What excites you about the future of 47m and Leipzig’s cultural scene?

There’s one feeling about the future of this place—hopefully, it’s going to work as an institution. That means people get paid. Maybe at some point, we have to change the team. Maybe I have to step away at some point. Because I think it’s important, like I said about my own work, to create a space that can evolve with new people who think differently. But the original idea should continue. That’s the most important thing, I think. And paying people well—that’s something that has to be maintained, too.

And about the scene in Leipzig, I hope people continue, grow, stop working, go to another city, continue there—whatever they need to do. It’s not really about Leipzig itself. It’s about doing the right thing, wherever that may be—whether that’s in Chemnitz, Berlin, or anywhere else.

Actually, I hope people stay in Leipzig and do it the right way here.

There’s going to be a new generation. And there will be possibilities—maybe from the city. It would be good to have more support for securing spaces for artists.

Last week, I went to Matthias Klein’s exhibition. It was really good. But it was only seen by a small bubble—HGB students and a few other people.

But what if we could get people who are actually thinking about buying artworks—really good artworks like these? That could be a solution. Because in other cities, like New York, it works. Collectors go to apartment exhibitions like that. They’re often more interested in things like that than in a white cube gallery.

I can definitely see that happening in Leipzig.

I can see that too, but we have to keep working, and we have to activate that part of society. Leipzig is not a poor city—we just have to knock on the right doors and say, Come on, give me your hand. There’s more here.

Yeah, I think that’s right. The fundamental thing is making it more accessible and obvious.

And that brings us back to eos archive and the map. These are tools that can help create that kind of visibility.

Definitely. And the feedback I get from eos archive is that it helps people discover spaces they might not have known about before. But I really like your approach as well—connecting the existing institutions to the off-space scene, making them more engaged, and promoting these spaces from within.

These big institutions already have their own circles of influence, and that’s a way to spread this information.

Exactly. It’s interesting to connect places like MdbK and Slug. They couldn’t be more different, but they’re both connected to art. So why shouldn’t MdbK support a space like Slug to help them get more visibility? They have a responsibility in that sense. They’re like the mothership of the city’s art scene. And it’s good that Dr. Weppelmann is supporting that idea.

Interesting. Okay, what about upcoming projects—either here at 47m or with your own artistic work—that you’re looking forward to this year?

So, next weekend is the opening of Paul Kolling.

Looking very good from where I’m sitting…

And then, I’m really looking forward to the exhibition at the beginning of October.

For my own artistic work, I’m looking for more studio time over the next few months. And maybe I’ll go to Oslo at the end of the year for an artist residency. But I also want to focus on my Closed Circles installation and on 47m. So I don’t have any exhibitions planned this year. Last year, I spent almost all of my time here at 47m, and I still did three or four exhibitions.

I hope you get the studio time you need. And I think that’s a nice place to end. But one more question about the future—if you could shape the ideal future for 47m, what would it look like in the next ten years?

A highly engaged audience, active membership, and good exhibitions. That’s it.

Good art coming to Leipzig—maybe also internationally. We’ve talked about, with the off-space union, creating an exchange weekend with another city. Things like that.

That’s in the future. But first, we have to start with the map. We have to keep working.

For sure. A lot of work ahead. Well, thank you so much for your time, Erik, and for sharing more about you and the vision behind this space.

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This conversation for eos archive was hosted by the project's founder, Micky Arratoon. Micky looks forward to hosting more conversations with those who are shaping and redefining subculture in Leipzig, Berlin and beyond. Get in touch to say hello@eosarchive.app.